“It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, ‘whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection,’ and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever.”  – John Adams

In this episode of Tending Bar, we hear from Mark E. Schamel, a prominent criminal defense attorney in Washington, D.C., who is well-known for defending police officers and federal agents in high profile cases. We discuss our justice system and how procedural rules are designed to check human biases that play into the determination of guilt versus innocence. Mark reflects on the goals of American justice, based on a system intended to protect the innocent — including the innocent who are sometimes accused of wrongdoing.

Mark also shares the story of Matt Horner, a Maryland man recently released from prison after being wrongfully convicted and spending 15 years behind bars for crimes he didn’t commit.  Mark represented Matt pro bono through The Innocence Project. 

Key Topics

6:24: Defending law enforcement officers in criminal cases

12:27: Jurisprudence, protecting values, and finding justice through process

25:12: The Innocence Project and Matt Horner

This episode was recorded prior to the death of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, whose deaths, among others, are fueling cries for police reform across the country. Schamel is an active participant in the public conversation surrounding the legal concept of “qualified immunity” for law enforcement officers, which shields police officers and other government officials from being personally sued for actions performed on the job, and that recalibration of the concept is necessary to hold officers accountable while still allowing them to perform their jobs.